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Moody, Sigma Or Westerly?

Discussion in 'Thinking of buying a Moody ask a question here' started by James Hurley, 21/7/17.

  1. James Hurley

    James Hurley James Hurley Temporary Member

    Messages:
    6
    I'm hoping this thread doesn't annoy anyone, as it's not intended that way. I sail single handed, a Snappy 27 to be fair, but I am leading-up to buying the semi-retirement/retirement boat for cruising the Channel, Med and the Canaries. I need to decide on a Moody 336, Sigma 362 or Storm Cruiser 33. Please convince me why I should choose the 336?
     
  2. Neil Eccles

    Neil Eccles Neil Eccles Executive Committee

    Messages:
    3,673
    MOA Position:
    Website Editor
    Boat name:
    CUTAWAY
    Berth:
    Vannes
    Boat type:
    Moody 42
    Cruising area:
    West Coast of France and North Coast Of Spain
    No reason to try and sway you James.
    Most Sigmas will have been heavily raced. You would need to check very carefully they had been looked after.
    Westerly Storm 33 - very well respected and you wouldn't be disappointed.
    Moody 336 - we had one and it was a great boat. It is built for short handed sailing and the facilities below are very good indeed.

    Personally, I would discount Sigmas and find the best kept example of the other two I could afford.
     
  3. Peter Wright

    Peter Wright Peter Wright

    Messages:
    1,676
    Boat name:
    WILD THYME
    Berth:
    Suffolk Yacht Harbour
    Boat type:
    Moody 425
    Cruising area:
    North Sea, English Channel, Biscay
    Hi James,

    I would not consider the Storm Cruiser - it's a Westerly Storm fitted with the rig of the much smaller Westerly Tempest and just doesn't sail, being grossly undercanvassed. They even fitted a bigger engine so it could get around. However, the Storm (not cruiser) is one of the performance Westerlies, up there with the Fulmar and Typhoon. She's both quicker and more comfortably appointed than the Fulmar, but sells for about the same money. Youy can race her successfully, provided the breeze exceeds 10 kts.

    The Moody 336 is even more confortably appointed than the Storm, but doesn't sail quite so well - if you want a more cruising oriented boat of Storm size, go for this, not a Storm Cruiser.

    The Sigma 362 is a much bigger boat and as performance oriented as the Storm, but, as Neil says, beware of examples that have been raced hard and not well cared for. Of the three, I would go for a good example of the Sigma, but it is likely to be more expensive both to buy and to run.

    Peter
     
  4. James Hurley

    James Hurley James Hurley Temporary Member

    Messages:
    6
    Thank you both for the feedback, which supports some of the comments I have received from others. I'm aware that the Sigma 33s, 38s and earlier 36s were/are raced heavily, but I was unaware the same was for the Sigma 362. That's not good to hear. The Storm Cruiser has a helm (not tiller) which is a must for my next cruiser, so that just about eliminates the Storm which as far as I can see are all tiller led? Shame, a really good performance boat and certainly ticks most of the boxes. Therefore I am swaying towards the Moody 336 and the Sigma 362; albeit as you say I will need to be confident the 362 has not been heavily raced. I had heard the 336 was a little sluggish and with my plan to live on the boat permanently for initially a 7-year cruise, I would need to add additional weight (stores, etc.) and I'm concerned that she will be even more sluggish and lose the performance that the 336 are known for. I don't race and have no intention of racing the boat, I'll be crewing single-handed 95% of the time so I'm wary of going above the 36ft mark - hence the 362. Or am I missing something here? Is there a friendly Moody around 36-38 ft that can be reasonably handled by a single-hander and not be too skitty - I like to cruise, not race to my destinations. I also have to take into account that I am planning to complete and Atlantic circuit after a few years cruising the Med, so the chosen boat needs to be capable of doing that too. I joined the Moody Association (I'm in the Westerly Association too) to get guidance from extremely knowledgeable Moody owners.
    James
     
  5. Neil Eccles

    Neil Eccles Neil Eccles Executive Committee

    Messages:
    3,673
    MOA Position:
    Website Editor
    Boat name:
    CUTAWAY
    Berth:
    Vannes
    Boat type:
    Moody 42
    Cruising area:
    West Coast of France and North Coast Of Spain
    James, Peter is peerless in his advice. Just to say don't put the 336 down - she is a handy boat, a good sailor and is nice to live on. We have done extended summers on one and weren't disappointed.

    Moody 36s were very well thought of and are much more comfortable boats all round. There is a nice aft cabin, and good saloon and forepeak. She also looks and feels much more modern and feels very big inside. They sail well too, very much in cruising mode of course! Being a centre cockpit boat, all the lines are normally returned there and sailing single handed is pretty easy.

    N
     
  6. James Hurley

    James Hurley James Hurley Temporary Member

    Messages:
    6
    Thanks Neil. At the risk of being shot down in flame, I had eliminated any boat that was centre cockpit. I'm an aft cockpit person and feel the boat better at the helm in the aft. When mooring to buoys, posts and trots, I find it easier as a single-hander to capture the line/buoy/hoop from the cockpit, scoop or just beyond the coaming. I've never sailed a centre cockpit single-handed and it concerns me a little. I've sailed big boats (Farr 60 Atlantic run and Clipper 68s) and Sunsail deliveries (36 & 38s) across the Med, but they've always been aft helmed and me as crew - never the skipper. Maybe I'm in need of a little more education here :eek:)
     
  7. Peter Wright

    Peter Wright Peter Wright

    Messages:
    1,676
    Boat name:
    WILD THYME
    Berth:
    Suffolk Yacht Harbour
    Boat type:
    Moody 425
    Cruising area:
    North Sea, English Channel, Biscay
    Hi James,

    If you don't want a tiller, you've effectively ruled out a Westerly Storm - although some wheel conversions have been done, it ruins the otherwise spacious cockpit (bigger than we have on our Moody425) with its wonderfully ergonomic layout.

    I had the same thought as Neil, that a Moody 36 of the 2000 era would suit your needs ideally. Definitely more of a cruiser than the Sigma, but still sails well and has even more more spacious and comfortable accommodation.than the Moody336.

    I've never noticed anything about a centre cockpit that makes single handing more difficult. Picking up moorings can be challenging because of the higher topsides, but that applies however many bodies you have on board and you soon develop a method to suit your needs. I can single hand our centre cockpit M425.comfortably, but would avoid trying to get her into a box berth in anything other than a flat calm. Alongside a finger berth is fine.

    Peter
     
    Last edited: 23/7/17
  8. Phil Newman

    Phil Newman Phil Newman

    Messages:
    15
    Boat name:
    SCHEHERAZADE
    Berth:
    Troon
    Boat type:
    Moody 422
    Cruising area:
    Clyde/West Coast Scotland
    Having come from 6 happy years with a Sigma 362 to a Moody 422 I wouldn't take issue with much of the above other than to highlight that the off quoted advice to avoid Sigmas really refers to the 33, 36 1st generation and 38 which may have had hard lives racing or as school boats. Sigma 362s share a hull with the 36 but have a totally different topsides and internal layout which is very well thought out, modern for its time. With a good aft cabin, galley in the right place at the bottom of the companionway and heads the other side, a well placed chart table and Nav station it works well singlehanded or two or more up. The 362 put more emphasis on the cruising than racing but is still a powerful boat but easy to handle with it. There are a good few around and they generally are well looked after, in my experience it is easier to find a good 362 than 33, 36 or 38.
    My 362 and 422 were both built by Marine Projects at the same time, that they came out of the same production facility is obvious with near identical woodwork and trim, both are good solid sea boats.
    For what you are looking for you would not be disappointed by a 362 they are very easy to live with, but for a change in circumstances I would still have mine!
    Phil
     
  9. Alan King

    Alan King Alan King

    Messages:
    371
    Boat name:
    ANADYR
    Berth:
    La Roche Bernard
    Boat type:
    Moody 346
    Cruising area:
    West Country / Brittany
    Center cockpit every time for retirement. Have come back cross-channel in a modern aft cockpit 36 and was appalled at the motion at the stern. Have a 346 and have never ceased to be amazed that when there is a blow and seas up top - down below - all is quiet and calm.
    Generally - it all come down to budget - but you would not do worse than add a 346 to your list.
    Alan King
     
  10. Richard Readings

    Richard Readings Richard Readings

    Messages:
    238
    Boat name:
    EMMIE
    Berth:
    Parkstone Yacht Club
    Boat type:
    Moody 336
    Cruising area:
    English Channel
    Our friends sailed their 336 back from Cherbourg to Poole yesterday in SW 4/5 in 9 hours. I think you'd be pushed to do better than that in anything under 40ft!

    Richard
     
  11. Phil Tadd

    Phil Tadd Phil Tadd

    Messages:
    45
    Boat name:
    SERENITY OF SWANWICK
    Berth:
    Antigua
    Boat type:
    Moody 376
    Cruising area:
    Caribbean and Further
    Hi James, we have a Moody 376 which I know is bigger than you are looking for but we have now cruised it from UK as far as Tahiti and it has looked after us well. We are very happy with a centre cockpit, it keeps those nasty following seas a bit further away than in an aft cockpit boat. Having sailed both Sigma38 and Westerley Typhoon as an instructor I would stay away from Sigma as a cruising boat but would be happy to have a Westerley. Look at what's on the market that you can afford and think about how you would handle it. Don't forget that for serious cruising you will probably be fitting/replacing a lot of gear, look at the stowage that a boat has, size of tanks, is there space for a watermaker, SSB radio or will you use a Satphone. Would a cutter rigged boat be more practical for cruising? Can you fit twin headsails?
     
  12. Aidan Coughlan

    Aidan Coughlan Aidan Coughlan

    Messages:
    61
    Boat name:
    HOLLY GO LIGHTLY
    Berth:
    Greystones
    Boat type:
    Moody 35
    Cruising area:
    Irish Sea
    I used to crew in a friend's tiller steered Storm 33 , racing & cruising - great boat for both purposes in anything other than light airs. I looked at a Regatta 330 (same hull, modernised interior) that was ruined by a wheel - the helmsman is trapped behind it, not ideal for single-handing. I couldn't believe it was so tight. I'd prefer a tiller on an aft cockpit boat of that size , think carefully unless you are already sure that a wheel is what you want !
     
  13. Richard Readings

    Richard Readings Richard Readings

    Messages:
    238
    Boat name:
    EMMIE
    Berth:
    Parkstone Yacht Club
    Boat type:
    Moody 336
    Cruising area:
    English Channel
    An advantage of our wheel steered 336 over our previous tiller steered Sadler is that by flipping a lever and pressing a button I can immediately engage the autohelm, thus giving me a spare pair of hands to do whatever needs to be done. The tiller pilot on the Sadler was nowhere near as convenient.

    Richard
     
  14. Aidan Coughlan

    Aidan Coughlan Aidan Coughlan

    Messages:
    61
    Boat name:
    HOLLY GO LIGHTLY
    Berth:
    Greystones
    Boat type:
    Moody 35
    Cruising area:
    Irish Sea
    "An advantage of our wheel steered 336 over our previous tiller steered Sadler is that by flipping a lever and pressing a button I can immediately engage the autohelm"

    Yes, I have to admit that I've gotten to like that -a lot - on our M35... much better , stronger and more convenient than a tiller pilot. I think it does even make up for the slightly reduced access to the a Genoa winches. The helm space behind the wheel on the regatta 330 (basically a storm) shocked me though, it felt positively claustrophobic. It may have been more of an issue for me since I knew the Storm, it ruined the otherwise very spacious cockpit. It may be better on the 336, haven't been on one.
     
  15. Peter Wright

    Peter Wright Peter Wright

    Messages:
    1,676
    Boat name:
    WILD THYME
    Berth:
    Suffolk Yacht Harbour
    Boat type:
    Moody 425
    Cruising area:
    North Sea, English Channel, Biscay
    Hi,

    Aidan's absolutely right, the Regatta 330 absolutely ruined the Storm's ergonomic cockpit and cost engineering down below ruined the practical layout, halving the useful stowage available. They did however finally fit the fractional rig that Ed Dubois had originally drawn for the Storm, but W refused to go for, so the Regatta 330 is just as fast but closer winded. A Storm fitted with the Regatta 330 rig would be wonderful, but I've never heard of one. Good though M336's are, they would not keep up with a Storm, upwind or downwind.

    A Typhoon, sailed properly, would leave our M425 behind upwind, and the 425 is known to be amongst the faster centre cockpit Moodys. Downwind, the 425's waterline length would come into play more and she might stick with a Typhoon.

    I've never sailed a Sigma 362, so can't comment, but I'd keep set from a Sigma 38 for cruising, simply on the boom height - it will hit the head of an average height man standing in the cockpit - not a safe arrangement, just one accidental gybe could kill, and there have been several such injuries.

    For long distance cruising, waterline length helps deliver fast passages and is probably more important than out and out windward performance. Stowage space and living space, at which both Moody and the pre Regatta Weaterlies excelled are also important. At the end of the day, it's worth looking at and, if possible, sailing all your candidate designs until you find one that feels right for you, but I would value most one that will look after you in bad weather - again, Moodys and Westerlies are both known for this.

    Peter
     
  16. James Hurley

    James Hurley James Hurley Temporary Member

    Messages:
    6
    I'm very grateful for all your feedback above and for challenging my earlier thoughts. My Snappy went on sale two weeks ago and I am getting nearer the time that I will need to make a decision. I have to admit I am getting quietly drawn to the Westerly Storm albeit with tiller and masthead, but the large cockpit, amazing write-ups of their performance and ticking pretty much every other box apart from the wheel helm, it will take a lot to be swayed. That said I'm still considering a Moody 336. The Sigma 362 is out of the equation; more expensive to buy/maintain, very limited in stowage and I'm nervous about their racing history. Your response to this question alone has been worth the Moody membership, which is second to none I hear? It's going to be a tough decision. Appreciated your comments.
     
  17. Peter Wright

    Peter Wright Peter Wright

    Messages:
    1,676
    Boat name:
    WILD THYME
    Berth:
    Suffolk Yacht Harbour
    Boat type:
    Moody 425
    Cruising area:
    North Sea, English Channel, Biscay
    Hi James,

    Glad you're enjoying the MOA, these forums alone make the membership fee worthwhile, but there's a lot more to the association.

    If you're seriously considering a Storm, You'll learn more about them by joining the Westerly Owners Association, of course not as good as MOA, but it still represents vey good value, although I'm not sure whether they offer a temporary membership.

    Good luck I your boat hunt , now is the time of year that brokers' books state filling up.

    Peter.
     
  18. James Hurley

    James Hurley James Hurley Temporary Member

    Messages:
    6
    Thanks Peter. Yes I am also a temporary member of WOA, so it looks like I've got the best of both worlds.
     
  19. James Hurley

    James Hurley James Hurley Temporary Member

    Messages:
    6
    Thanks Phil. If I was to show you my boat comparison spreadsheet and post-purchase upgrades list/costs (essential and wish-list) you would see that all in your thread is very sound advice. It is much appreciated. UK to Tahiti is an admirable achievement I can only dream of for now. But I'll get there.