1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Questions About Moody 419

Discussion in 'Thinking of buying a Moody ask a question here' started by Jerry English, 25/7/17.

  1. Jerry English

    Jerry English Jerry English Registered Guest

    Messages:
    3
    Hello,
    We are looking at a Moody 419 located in the United States and have many questions.
    Is the ballast lead or iron?
    Is the ballast encapsulated or bolted on?
    Is the hull solid glass beneath the water line?
    Any issues with deck cores?
    Any osmosis/blister issues?
    Any known common problems with the boat?
    We know the Thronycraft engine is no longer manufactured, any problems obtaining parts?
    We like the boat because it is a center cockpit center board and has 3 cabins.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    I've asked the broker and have not received any answers.

    Regards
    Jerry English
     
  2. Peter Wright

    Peter Wright Peter Wright

    Messages:
    1,683
    Boat name:
    WILD THYME
    Berth:
    Suffolk Yacht Harbour
    Boat type:
    Moody 425
    Cruising area:
    North Sea, English Channel, Biscay
    Hi Jerry,

    The Moody 419 fits in the series 41, 419, 422, 425 all of which came out of the same mould except that the later ones have a sugar scoop transom with a large lazarette across the stern for storing deck gear. If you look at the Moody Archive (link on MOA Home Page, left side towards the bottom) you will find descriptions of all models.

    Ballast is in the form of a cast iron keel bolted on to a grp stub moulded as part of the hull. Being much longer than modern keels at the top, this joint carries much lower stresses than - I've never heard of a major problem with the keel joint on one of these. Pete Petersen had an event when his 422 weny aground on the US E coast in a storm - despite a terrible pounding, the yard found it difficult to detach the keel from the yacht when they dropped it to check for damage and, as far as I recall, found no damage. I have read on this board of a 41 which had cracks in the grp stub so the owner dropped the keel on some pacific island, repaired the grp then refitted the keel. In neither of these cases did the keel fall off and the one with the grp damage was not prevented from sailing the ocean.

    The hull is solid grp - it has moulded in floors and stringers which are cored with something, probably foam, but I've never cut into them to find out what the core is. The deck and coachroof are grp with an end grain balsa core to the horizontal parts. In way of deck fittings the balsa is replaced with marine ply. If the boat has been poorly carted for, the deck core may have water in some places. Look closely at the little stainless sealing plates around the chainplates and at any location where something has been fastened to the deck after original construction.

    No grp boat is immune to osmosis - it basically depends how well she's been cared for. These Moodys were built by Marine Projects in Plymouth, UK in a temperature and humidity controlled shop using isophthalic gel coat, which makes them much less prone to osmosis than earlier boats built with orthophthalic gelcoat or in a less well controlled environment.

    The Thornycroft T108 engine is a marinised BMC 1500cc auto diesel.The basic engine parts and marinising parts (raw water pump, heat exchanger) are relatively easy to find in the UK, can't comment on how easy in the US. An engine of this age may well be approaching the end of it's life, depending on how well i's been cared for. I don't know what gearbox it came with.

    Known Issues, (the first two are rare, but not unknown, the third will almost certainly have happened).:

    If the sealing plates around the chainplates have not been resealed from time to time, it's likely they will be leaking getting water not only into the side deck core but also into the marine ply part bulkheads on which the chainplates are mounted. If this is left for some time, the part bulkheads will rot and the chainplate bolts pull through the part bulkhead relaxing the rig. In the ultimate, a piece of the part bulkhead can pull through the deck and the rig falls down, but I've never heard of it getting to that extreme before it's attended to. You cannot see the part bulkheads and chainplates - they're hidden behind cabinetry in the saloon - but a good test is to use a 12 " steel rule to check for bulging of the deck around the chainplates. All can be fixed by a good shipwright. On our 425, we have cut inspection hatches in the saloon cabinets covered with teak panels screwed in place so we can make sure there are no leaks. You wouldn't know they're not original.

    The mast compression post is mated to a floor at the bottom end and the deckhead under the mast step with hardwood pads. If the boat has been left for a long time with water in the bilge, the lower pad particularly can go rotten so it will not carry load. In consequence the deck is pushed down by the mast load causing cracking around the mast step and causing the bulkhead to fail where the doorway is cut through it. If the door jams when you shut it, that may be an early indication of trouble here. Again, a straight edge on deck round the mast step is also good for diagnosing this problem. Fairly easily rectified if there is no bad cracking of the deck.

    The laid deck in the cockpit was done with teak faced ply, not solid teak so will be delaminating if it's still there. In most cases, some previous owner has replaced with solid teak, but check.

    These boats were very well built, but their condition today is more about how well they've been looked after than how they were built they will be at least 31 years old, so a thorough survey before buying is, in my view, essential.

    Peter
     
  3. Jerry English

    Jerry English Jerry English Registered Guest

    Messages:
    3
    Thank you Peter for that detailed write up. The information will be helpful when we go to inspect her. I'll pay particular attention to the keel bolts and the deck areas around the chain plates and mast step. Good info.
     
  4. Peter Wright

    Peter Wright Peter Wright

    Messages:
    1,683
    Boat name:
    WILD THYME
    Berth:
    Suffolk Yacht Harbour
    Boat type:
    Moody 425
    Cruising area:
    North Sea, English Channel, Biscay
    Hi Jerry,

    Marine Projects used large sized mild steel keel bolts - and a lot of them - perhaps because of concerns about inter granular stress corrosion cracking in austenitic steels. Of course, the top ends of the studs (they aren't actually bolts) and the nuts washers and backing plates in the bilge will rust if sea water is allowed to lie in there. This seems to worry younger surveyors who have never seen anything other than stainless keel bolts, but I have only heard of one case where the business part of the stud was significantly corroded and that was attributable to failure of the joint allowing seawater to penetrate between the keel and the hull. If you're able to see the boat lifted out, watch the joint carefully when the boat is put down on its keel - if water oozes out of the joint, the keel needs dropping and the joint remaking.(this is true for any yacht with a bolted on keel). Despite hearing of this corroded bolt problem and the damaged keel stub on another one, I have never heard of a single failed keel bolt on a Moody. I put this down to the large number and large size of the studs, particularly when compared with modern production yachts. These studs are low stressed components. If they're rusty on top, don't worry - the usual remedy is clean up with a wire brush and paint.

    Peter
     
  5. Micky Barnes

    Micky Barnes Michael Barnes

    Messages:
    769
    Boat name:
    LIESEL
    Berth:
    Hamble
    Boat type:
    Moody 41
    Cruising area:
    South Coast
    Jerry, I have a M41 which is almost identical to the M419 except for arrangement of aft cabin and the 419 is slightly newer. I endorse all that Peter has said. But would like to add a couple of points.

    Of course not just chain plates and mast step, also check any through deck fitting. I had some water penetration through one of the bolt holes securing the bars either side of the mast - some people call them "granny bars" but they look more like zimmer frames to me. Removed bolt, ground out damaged wooden core with bent nail in a drill, blew dry air into hole to be absolutely certain treated with wood hardener, filled with epoxy-microfibre paste (disposable syringe was helpful), redrilled hole and replaced fitting.

    Moody keel is well faired into hull this enables the keel bolts to be laterally separated giving good strength as well as plenty of them as mentioned by Peter. The fairing also reduces turbulences at the keel hull join which is why aircraft wings are faired in.

    Thornycroft engine spares still seem to be readily available but I changed my engine for a Beta 60 - an easy fit. I did have trouble with the Hurth gearbox fitted to my original engine and had it serviced. Removed and refitted it myself without moving the engine.

    Greater concern is the mild steel fuel tank. Do check the base thoroughly. Replaced mine with a plastic one very slightly larger. Most important thing was to move the filler which is in the cockpit sole. This is almost certain to leak water through the single o-ring seal in the filler cap - water in diesel - diesel bug - internal rusting of tank base. I rerouted my filler hose so that the filler is now just inside the cockpit locker.
    Micky
     
  6. Jerry English

    Jerry English Jerry English Registered Guest

    Messages:
    3
    Micky thanks for the heads up on the fuel tank.