Moody 38 (90s) Keel + Mystery Rivets. Surveyor / Broker opinions

[Jon Spicer]

Hello All
I've been lucky enough to get a copy of a previous survey which has highlighted a few areas.
I'm was about to make an offer but the words "detached" and "keel" raised my blood pressure!
The broker has provided an explanation but i'd feel more reassured if Moody owners agreed.

Surveyor Comment:
No obvious damage to the keel.
However there has been some repair/intervention at the forward and aft sections of the keel joint on both sides
There are some detached areas and also the joint is softer on the port forward patch.

Broker explanation:
The hull is coated in Coppercoat multi season antifouling, I think when this coating was originally applied, the hull/keel join was most likely bridged with coppercoat which is not very flexible, you can see where this join area has been re-coated by the last owner.

The photos don't really show much so should i request close ups showing the area?

Surveyor Comment:
The galley sink seacock located behind the port seat back in the main cabin. While the seacock itself
was satisfactory and double clipped. There appears to have been some work undertaken in this area.
There is white paint surrounding the though hull fitting and unexplained rivets in the deck area on
the adjacent strut.

Broker explanation:
Rivets: looking underneath the berth, there is a metal retaining strut over the water tanks, these rivets are securing this metal strut. At some stage in the past, I think the port tank has been removed which is why these rivets have been re-done.

If you think this should be further investigated i'll need to request pictures.

There are a few other items but i don't mind sorting these myself.
However, when it comes to the weighty bit that keeps the mast pointing in the right direction i defer to those with experience

Many thanks in advance for any advice you may have.
Ta

 

[Andy Fairbanks]

Hi Jon!

I can't really comment on your questions as I don't know enough about marine engineering to offer you a qualified response.

However, have you tried contacting the owner directly to talk to them about your concerns? I know whenever I've looked at buying a boat I always try to talk to the owner just to hear where they've been, what upgrades they've done over the years, any quirks of the boat that sort of thing.

In addition, if this was an area highlighted on the previous survey did the current owner do anything about it?

If you decide to proceed to the next stage of the buying process, armed with the previous survey it'll be a good start for the surveyor you engage with to zero in on these and any other areas of concern.

I hope it all goes well for you!

Andy

 

[Ville Steudle]

Jon,

The photos do not seem to show the details mentioned in the text.

For comments, we would thus need detail close-ups (preferably with good illumination), otherwise interpretation of e.g. "some detached areas" is guesswork only.

Ville

 

[Jon Spicer]

Thanks both, i've requested close ups and will post them here when i get them.
From what i can tell it doesn't appear that much has been done in the short current ownership.
There are small points raised in the survey like cleaning rusty mounts that still need doing.
I don't mind tackling these jobs but wouldn't want a major keel project if avoidable.

 

[Peter Wright]

Hi Jon,

I find it incredible with the cheapness of images today that someone can write a report like this without including photos of the questionable features he refers to.

Sadly, I don't think a photo will take you much further on the hull/keel joint. particularly if the work done there has been overpainted with Coppercoat. My suspicion is that some of the joint has been dug out and refilled on separate occasions using different materials. The correct sealant for this job cures to a fairly hard rubber which adheres very effectively to both the keel and grp - it sounds like a repairs have been done here using two different sealants of different hardness and the detachment suggests that the top of the keel is rusting so the sealant cannot adhere effectively. None of this is a disaster if the sealant problem doesn't go too deep. However, photos are unlikely to tell you how deep it goes.

The issue here is that the sea will continue to find its way into the joint causing rusting of the keel top and progressively further detachment until it reaches a keel stud. At that point the working part of the stud will start to corrode. The best test for this is to put the boat afloat for at least 48 hours then inspect all the keel studs in the bilge - if water is coming up any stud, the keel joint needs remaking now. Then lift her out and put her down on her keel, while watching the hull/keel joint - if water oozes out of the joint, it will need attention in a year or two.

The mind boggles at the thought of rivets through a balsa cored grp deck and I can't work out what a strut is doing in there, perhaps a photo will help in this case.

The brokers reply seems to be a confession that he has no idea what the possible defects are.

The availabilty of an old survey can sometimes be helpful, but I wouldn't let it deter me from getting an up to date survey when contemplating purchase a boat of this scale and value. The surveyor is working for you and will be obliged to answer any questions you have,if only to ensure receipt of your cheque!

Peter.

 

[Jon Spicer]

Thanks Peter
Doesn't sound like a deal breaker at this point then.
If the new survey also picks up on it then i'll discuss the 48 hour submersion test.
As long as it's fixable and taken into account by the seller all good.
I don't want to be faced with a potentially large repair & bill down the line.
I'll certainly take this into account when making my offer.
Hopefully the "rivet" photo will help clear up the mystery.

 

[Barry Voysey]

I find it incredible with the cheapness of images today that someone can write a report like this without including photos of the questionable features he refers to.

Indeed you might Peter but the standard of survey out there varies so much. The last survey I had commissioned the report did not contain a single photo and the only photos he provided was of the boat lifted out of the water in the hoist sling. I was less concerned due to my trade background and that I had been through the boat with a fine tooth comb myself. The survey I had for another boat which I didn't buy was full of photos, shows some yacht surveyors are better than others.

 

[Jon Spicer]

Any recommendations for a surveyor in the Plymouth area welcome

 

[Ian Jones]

Any recommendations for a surveyor in the Plymouth area welcome

After I had already purchased my boat I found online an earlier survey of her done by Compass Marine of Chichester which was head and shoulders above what I had done. The website has a few example surveys to demonstrate what to expect. A little late for me, but one I would seriously consider if I needed another in future.