Non Boat Specific Wanted: Moody bilge keel <37', EU-VAT

[Jan Hendrik Unger]

Hello everyone,

I'm interested in purchasing a bilge-keel-yacht, intended for the use on the German and/ or Dutch coast mainly. We are planing to do rather short trips (weekends up to a week) with our three children (6,8,10 years old), thus a rather frugal yacht will suffice our expectation as long as there is no maintance backlog. I have a decent sailing experience as a (formerly) ambitious regatta sailor and because of working as a yacht skipper beside my studies.

After having done a trip round the Isle of Elba during our holidays last summer our "familiy council" has decided to continue this track. On my search for finding a yacht that fits in the (young-family-)budget, is solidly built and meets the criteria of being employed in tidal waters, I got the impression that a well maintained '80s/ '90's Moody bilge keeler would meet our criteria very well.

Concerning the purchase, a transfer of the yacht would not be favorable but possible. From my understanding, an import from the UK would induce EU-Import tax, which should be avoided by a matter of cause.

I'm very much looking forward to your hints and comments!

Best Regards

Hendrik
and family, see pictures

 

[Martine Loeffen]

Hi Hendrik!

There aren't all that many Moody's around here (Netherlands & Germany) and I think most of them are fin keels.
I have a fin keel 346 myself, and could not love a boat more than I do her

There's a 346 fin keel for sale near where I am, tho the asking price is a bit much IMHO (and I know the boat):

Moody 346 boten te koop | YachtWorld

Vind Moody 346 te koop in de buurt, met gebruikte en nieuwe boten, prijzen, foto’s en meer. Vind bootdealers en vind je boot op YachtWorld.

nl.yachtworld.com

You could always have a look and make an offer - you don't have anything to lose as the worst they can do is say 'nope'.

What would be your max. budget?
You'll have to buy in the EU to avoid the VAT, so no UK boats sadly. But there are usually a few Moody's for sale in the Med - Spain, Greece ... Which countries would be acceptable, and what would be too far away?
Do you have a preference for the older (Primrose) or newer (Dixon) designs?

 

[Pete Rowland]

Hi Hendrik, so you are looking for a yacht in Europe and don't forget Ireland.

There is a Moody 31 in Brittainy. However, check that it is a bilge keel as yacht brokers are hopeless at getting details correct. Looks reasonably tidy and has had some money spent on it over the years. Two children in the stern cabin, one in the v berth, then you and Mrs H in the saloon. We have done this, we my parents us and one very tall 15 yr old child, plus the dog and survived

Marine Projects Moody 31 boats for sale | YachtWorld

Find Marine Projects Moody 31 for sale near you, including used and new, boat prices, photos & more. Locate boat dealers and find your boat at YachtWorld.

www.yachtworld.co.uk

There is also a Moody 35 in Greece but the cost of delivering it to Germany likely £5000.

The one other idea is a Moody 33 which is likely to be cheaper and pay the VAT. Whilst no one likes paying tax, if the purchase price is lower, so is the VAT and it gives you evidence should you ever be asked in the future, useful should you ever sell her.

Our M31:

 

[Jan Hendrik Unger]

Hi Hendrik!

There aren't all that many Moody's around here (Netherlands & Germany) and I think most of them are fin keels.
I have a fin keel 346 myself, and could not love a boat more than I do her

There's a 346 fin keel for sale near where I am, tho the asking price is a bit much IMHO (and I know the boat):

Moody 346 boten te koop | YachtWorld

Vind Moody 346 te koop in de buurt, met gebruikte en nieuwe boten, prijzen, foto’s en meer. Vind bootdealers en vind je boot op YachtWorld.

nl.yachtworld.com

You could always have a look and make an offer - you don't have anything to lose as the worst they can do is say 'nope'.

What would be your max. budget?
You'll have to buy in the EU to avoid the VAT, so no UK boats sadly. But there are usually a few Moody's for sale in the Med - Spain, Greece ... Which countries would be acceptable, and what would be too far away?
Do you have a preference for the older (Primrose) or newer (Dixon) designs?

Hi Martine,

Thank you for your immediate reply! I am actually looking for bilge keel version intentionally. As we are living in the north-western part of Germany, the wadden sea is the closest shore cruising area - besides the Ijsselmeer.

Concerning the Transfer, costs and time are a limitating factor. I expect costs of a transfer from the mediterranean above 5.000€. Additionally I am going to face organizational obstacles. Therefore, a boat in the Med. has to be a good bargain and needs to be a creditable well maintenance state (e.g. recommendation by a known Forum-participant) to be in the range.

Concerning the design: I prefer the Dixon- ones, whereas a Pimrose designed Moody, that meet the criteria, is very attractive too.

Best Regards

Hendrik

 

[Jan Hendrik Unger]

Hi Hendrik, so you are looking for a yacht in Europe and don't forget Ireland.

There is a Moody 31 in Brittainy. However, check that it is a bilge keel as yacht brokers are hopeless at getting details correct. Looks reasonably tidy and has had some money spent on it over the years. Two children in the stern cabin, one in the v berth, then you and Mrs H in the saloon. We have done this, we my parents us and one very tall 15 yr old child, plus the dog and survived

Marine Projects Moody 31 boats for sale | YachtWorld

Find Marine Projects Moody 31 for sale near you, including used and new, boat prices, photos & more. Locate boat dealers and find your boat at YachtWorld.

www.yachtworld.co.uk

There is also a Moody 35 in Greece but the cost of delivering it to Germany likely £5000.

The one other idea is a Moody 33 which is likely to be cheaper and pay the VAT. Whilst no one likes paying tax, if the purchase price is lower, so is the VAT and it gives you evidence should you ever be asked in the future, useful should you ever sell her.

Our M31:

Hi Pete,

thank you very much for your reply! Beeing kind of "britainophile" after having spent part of my schooleducation in Monmouthshire and studying at King's College London for a year, I loved your differentiation between the British Isles (including/excluding Ireland) and Europe. I'm actually aware that the Republic of Ireland is still part of the European Union .

Thx for the hint to the Moody in Brittainy, which actually is described as "biquille", which means bilge keel. Do you think the price is of 38.000€ is reasonable?

Your shared experiences with the Moody 31 are very encouraging indeed! By the way: Your Moody 31 is looking desirable !

The Moody 33 models look well too, they are a bit less pricy but are always a few years older.

From my point of view the VAT-question, is an issue. The incidentals rise substantially as they do when high transfer costs occure. It'll always cause 20% of the purchasing price added as import tax. But there seem to be xceptions possible, e.g. Yachts that have been registered in "Europe" regularly until three yars ago. There may even be UK-Citiziens between the the Moody-Owners, who registered their Yachts in a European Country before Brexit. The RYA has negotiated a waiver with the UK-Tax-Autority for importing Yachts to the UK in certain (not all) cirumstances. Actually UK-Prices seem to be a bit lower than on the continent.

....and to put things right: I am a honest and law-abiding citizen. I don't want to have a boat that isn't taxed properly. VAT is always payed by the first private owner. If the yacht is sold to another private owner no VAT is arising. Neither in the UK nor in the EU-Single-Market. It just doesn't make sense to pay VAT twice (in the UK and by importing it to the EU).

Best Regards

Hendrik

 

[Jan Hendrik Unger]

I'm already very thankful for having the opportunity to take advantage of your community without beeing a Moody owner yet!

I actually got aware of an offer in Germany:

Moody 31 Mk I, 1984, (probably) three Pre-Owners, regular maintenance, Asking price: ~40.000€

What do you think is the intrinsic value of a 38-year-old ship?

 

[Pete Rowland]

Hendrik, the Moody 31 in France (the photo of the chart plotter probably gives the location ) is a Mark One version. The only differences are the stern and the chart table layout. Actually although we have a Mk 2, I would prefer the Mk 1 chart table layout. The French yacht also has a stern platform which isn't original, but a nice addition. Looking at the photos, the owner has spent some money over the years, including some nice canvass work, newish chart plotter with the existing radar etc. Looks like the engine has had some work too, oh and its the freshwater version rather than raw water. The Furlex furler looks like it has been replaced at some point in the yachts life too. The second fridge under the chart table bound to be useful for family cruising, there may be a fridge unit in the cool box in the galley counter lift up panel.

The yacht is certainly in the ball park for value compared to a UK Moody 31 and given the good condition in the photos probably priced correctly. If you have another bilge keel in Germany go and visit with the family and see what you think. Try all the berths for length too. Two adults in the v berth play "footsie" at night time as your feet touch each other. Two children will be fine. Once viewed and take photos then compare to the one in France.

I have only sailed and dived in the Baltic, not Holland, but I would love to bring our M31 across for the summer, a perfect sized yacht for all those tiny little harbours and the super canal going through Sweden. Just need to retire first. Oh and sorry she isn't for sale.

The big question for buying a UK yacht or anything that might be, is to ask were was the boat moored on 31 Dec 21 (Brexit day) and can that be proven by paperwork receipts and photos etc. If the boat is in Europe, you are fine and there shouldn't be an issue. Anywhere else and a European buyer is liable for VAT the minute the yacht arrives in the EU. So that paperwork is important. Our yacht club photographed and produced a written letter confirming our location in the UK on Brexit night.

Good luck with your search and feel free to ask again if you have any queries.

Pete

 

[Chris Truby]

Hello everyone,

I'm interested in purchasing a bilge-keel-yacht, intended for the use on the German and/ or Dutch coast mainly. We are planing to do rather short trips (weekends up to a week) with our three children (6,8,10 years old), thus a rather frugal yacht will suffice our expectation as long as there is no maintance backlog. I have a decent sailing experience as a (formerly) ambitious regatta sailor and because of working as a yacht skipper beside my studies.

After having done a trip round the Isle of Elba during our holidays last summer our "familiy council" has decided to continue this track. On my search for finding a yacht that fits in the (young-family-)budget, is solidly built and meets the criteria of being employed in tidal waters, I got the impression that a well maintained '80s/ '90's Moody bilge keeler would meet our criteria very well.

Concerning the purchase, a transfer of the yacht would not be favorable but possible. From my understanding, an import from the UK would induce EU-Import tax, which should be avoided by a matter of cause.

I'm very much looking forward to your hints and comments!

Best Regards

Hendrik
and family, see pictures

Hi Hendrik - have you considered a Moody 33 Angus Primrose design - all taxes paid in the EU - based in Lanzarote?? Check out my for sale advert! Thanks

 

[Stephen Pollock]

I have a Moody 36CC bilge keeler built in 1997. I bought her in 2012 in Gosport when she had been very lightly used by her two previous owners. Since then I have sailed her around the mediterranean returning via the Canal du Midi and arriving home this summer to Conyer Quay near Sittingbourne.
She was in Marseilles on the appropriate night and so has EU VAT though due to the vagaries of Returned Goods Relief I can also claim UK VAT.
Almost everything except the internal fittings, mast, bow thruster, rudder and Volvo engine has been replaced at some point and she is reliable and leakproof though with the bilge keels she is not brillant upwind.
I am now contemplating selling her as my wife does not want to sail in colder waters.
If this is of interest to you drop me an email. stephen.pollock7@icloud.com
Yours sincerely Dr Steve Pollock